THE DOCTOR AND THE SHEIKHS' DEBATE
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Sh: Yes, there are many mentions of this Hadith in Sihah al Sittah.
Dr: Yes, the majority of the context from Sihah al Sittah is regarding this and more than 150 more books talk about this in my software.
ﻋﺒﺮﻩ ﻓﻴﻬﺎ ﻓﺎﻥ ﻓﺰﻭﺭﻭﻫﺎ ﺍﻟﻘﺒﻮﺭ ﺯﻳﺎﺭﻩًْ ﻋﻦ ﻧﻬﻴﺘﻜﻢ ﻛﻨﺖ ﺍﻧﻲ
Only the end is different for instance:
ﺍﻻﺧﺮﻩ ﺗﺬﻛﺮ ﻭ ﺍﻟﺪﻧﻴﺎ ﻓﻲ ﺗﺰﻫﺪ
Sh: That is correct. This context is available in most books.
Dr: I am no Hadith expert but based on my knowledge from religion, Quran, God and the Prophet, I can say that this Hadith is wrong and fraud.
Sh: Why is it wrong? Why is it fraud?
Dr: I believe that based on Quran the Prophet is:
ﻳﻮﺣﻲ ﻭﺣﻲ ﻫﻮﺍﻻ ﺍﻥ ﺍﻟﻬﻮﻱ ﻋﻦ ﻳﻨﻄﻖ ﻣﺎ
Therefore the Prophet cannot say something from his own belief and then that gets corrected especially not one thing but three things.
Sh: Why can that not happen?
Dr: Have a look at this Hadith so one case of a certain mistake can be clarified. In the chain of transmissions below you will see proof of the Prophet pilgrimaging his mother's grave:
Zak al Masir Ibn Jazi, volume 3, page 237, Aldar al Mansour, volume 5, page 177; Tafsire Ghartabi, volume 9, page 159; Tafsir Khazan, volime 3, page 350 and Al Tazakor Ghartabi, volume 1, page 12, Al Sayarah Al Habiya, volume 2.
ﻓﻘﺎﻝ ـ ﻜﺎﻙ ﺑ ﺍﻟﺬﻱ ﻣﺎ ﻓﻘﺎﻟﻮ ﻋﻠﻴﻬﻢ ﺍﻧﺼﺮﻑ ﺛﻢ ﻟﺒﻜﺎﺋﻪ ﺍﻟﻨﺎﺱ ﻓﺒﻜﻲ ﺑﻜﻲ ﺛﻢ ﺭﻛﻌﺘﻴﻦ ﺻﻠﻲ ﻓﺘﻮﺿﺎ، ﺁﻣﻨﻪ، ﺍﻣﻪ ﺑﻘﺒﺮ ﻣﺮ ﺍﻟﻨﺒﻲ ﺍﻥ ﺍﺳﺘﻐﻔﺮﻟﻬﺎ ﺍﻥ ﺭﺑﻲ ﺍﺳﺘﺎﺫﺕ ﺛﻢ ﺭﻛﻌﺘﻴﻦ ﻓﺼﻠﺖ ﺍﻣﻲ ﺑﻘﺒﺮ ﻣﺮﺭﺕ
"The Prophet went to his mother's grave, Aminah. He then did ablution and read two Sermon Salat (Pray). He then cried and everyone cried with him. He then went towards the people they asked him: who was this that you cried for? He replied: It was my mother's grave, I read two Sermon Salat and then requested God's permission for forgiveness for her."
Sh: Yes, This is also correct.
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Dr: This Hadith also discusses praying in the graveyard that you guys loath so much and question.
Sh: Yes, slowly everything about us is being questionable.
Dr: I am bringing proof from your own books.
Sh: What happened to the answer regarding the Hadith that forbid pilgrimaging and then allowed it?
Dr: We agreed that firstly the Quran will be our criteria and then Hadith.
Sh: Correct, but which part of this Hadith is contrary to what Quran says?
Dr: What more than it being 100% contradicting what Quran says? The Prophet has never changed what he has said: in his entire lifetime. There might be times when the ordinances have been tighter and harder (for example, drinking alcohol) but it has never completely changed. I mean that something Lawful has never become unlawful. Even the ordinances that have become harder or like the ones that have become easier have verses of Quran to back them up. In other words, the Quran abrogates an ordinance by another verse of its own.
Sh: Well, do you have any other Hadith that is contradicting this one?
Dr: We have plenty in our own books but since our deal is to bring proof from your own books we can have a look at these ones: Hadith volume 5, page 44, Sunan Ibn Majah number 1599.
Aisha says:
ﺍﻻﺧﺮﻩ ًْﺭﺧﺺ ﺗﺬﻛﺮﻩ ﻭ ﺍﻟﺪﻧﻴﺎ ﻓﻲ ﺗﺰﻫﺪ ﻓﺎﻥ ﺍﻟﻘﺒﻮﺭ ﺯﻳﺎﺭﻩًْ ﻓﻲ
This Hadith is without prohibition of the first Hadith.
Sh: Maybe it is a permission given after something that has been forbidden?
Dr: But I think once Aisha saw that people are discussing forbiddance from pilgramiging, she then decided to mention the Prophet's Hadith.
Sh: Well that could also be a possibility.
Dr: But this cancels the doubt of the Prophet changing his decision.
Sh: If we class that as a problem then yes we can use it to cancel the doubt.
Dr: Do you mean to say that it is okay for the Prophet to change the ordinance that Quran has had no opinion on?
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Sh: If I say no then you will bring the Quran and:" ﺍﻟﻬﻮﻱup ﻋﻦ ﻳﻨﻄﻖ ﻣﺎ " again.
Dr: Do you not see this as reasonable?
Sh: Of course, it is reasonable.
Dr: Please look at Madarik Al Tanzil Al Beyhaghi, volume 2, page 84, that I have referred to it before as well:
ﻟﻤﺤﺰﻭﻧﻮﻥ ﺍﺑﺮﺍﻫﻴﻢ ﻳﺎ ﻋﻠﻴﻚ ﺍﻧﺎ ﻭ ﺍﻟﺮﺏ ﺍﺳﺨﻂ ﻣﺎ ﻧﻘﻮﻝ ﻻ ﻭ ﻊ ﺗﺪﻣ ﺍﻟﻌﻴﻦ ﻭ ﻳﺤﺰﻥ ﺍﻟﻘﻠﺐ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻭ ﺍﺑﺮﺍﻫﻴﻢ ﻋﻠﻲ ﺍﷲ ﺭﺳﻮﻝ ﺑﻜﻲ ﻟﻘﺪ
"The Prophet cried for Ibrahim and he told him that the hearts are mournful and the eyes tear but we do not say anything to anger God. We are mournful for you O Ibrahim."
Sh: Yes, That is correct.
Dr: The other false belief is another Hadith saying that the women are forbidden to pilgrimage the graveyards.
Sh: There are many Hadith's confirming this that cannot be denied.
Dr: The majority of the Hadith come from Abu Huraira citing in various books of Sihah al Sittah that the Prophet said:
ﺍﻟﻘﺒﻮﺭ ﺯﻭﺍﺭﺍﺕ ﻟﻌﻦ
"Curse the women whom are pilgrimaging the graves"
Sh: Is it only Abu Huraira citing regarding this?
Dr: Others have cited it too, but most of the Hadith's that are in the same content come from Abu Huraira.
Sh: Others have still cited regarding this in Sihah al Sittah.
Dr: Yes, Vali Tarmazi in Sunan, volume 4, page 94, believes that it would not be logical. He says that some of the clerics opinions are that this Hadith was before the permission of pilgrimaging any grave and when the permission was given it were also given for women as well.
Sh: But you said that condemning a Hadith that is forbidden cannot be allowed afterwards.
Dr: Precisely, that is the reason why I say that accepting some of the scholars Hadith's for example Tarmazi is a mistake. This is just like how they are trying to find an excuse for this Hadith as well.
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Sh: I don't recall any Hadith permitting woman to pilgrimage the graves.
Dr: I have them in the programme on my mobile. Please have a look at these chains of transmissions: Musnad Abi Yaali, volume 10, page 131, Ibn Abi Malika says:
ﻗﺎﻟﺖ: ﺍﻟﻤﺆﻣﻨﻴﻦ)ﻋﺎﻳﺸﻪ(، ﺍﻡ ﻳﺎ ﺍﻗﺒﻠﺖ ﺍﻳﻦ ﻣﻦ ﻟﻬﺎ ﻓﻘﻠﺖ ﺍﻟﻤﻘﺎﺑﺮ ﻣﻦ ﺍﻟﻴﻮﻡ ﺫﺍﺕ ﺍﻗﺒﻠﺖ
ﺍﻟﻤﺆﻣﻨﻴﻦ، ﺍﻡ ﻟﻬﺎ ﻓﻘﻠﺖ ﺍﻟﺮﺣﻤﻦ. ﻋﺒﺪ ﺍﺧﻲ ﻗﺒﺮ ﻣﻦ
ﻓﺎﺟﺎﺯﻩ... ﺯﻳﺎﺭﺗﻬﺎ ﻋﻦ ﻧﻬﻲ ﻛﺎﻥ ﻧﻌﻢ ﻗﺎﻟﺖ ﺍﻟﻘﺒﻮﺭ، ًْﺍﻛﺎﻥ ﺯﻳﺎﺭﻩ ﻋﻦ ﻳﻨﻬﻲ ﺭﺳﻮﻝ
"I saw Aisha walking back from the graveyard one day and I said: O Umul Momenin, where are you coming from? She said: I come from my brother's grave, Abdul Rahman. I said: to her: Hasn't the Prophet forbidden pilgrimaging the graves? She said: Yes, the forbidding was before and then he allowed it..."
Sh: This Hadith proves the previous one.
Dr: But it contradicts the forbiddance of woman pilgrimaging. It means that it validates what Tarmazi said.
Sh: Yes, that permits them.
Dr: Then if that is the case it can be said that this Hadith did not exist just like the first one.
Sh: But you said this based from the Quran. You said that his Hadith is incorrect based on Quran.
Therefore, we can use the same analysis regarding forbidding woman pilgrimaging the graves using the Quran. Aisha and Tarmazi's Hadith confirmed it.
Dr: It is good that eventually you agreed to believe the truth over incorrect Hadith's.
Sh: What advantage could the companions have from making up Hadith's such as this?
Dr: I am not quite sure. But I think that because the Calipha felt that the presence of people especially woman would not be wise to witness crimes such as when Muawiyah's mother ate martyr Hamza's heart out or the Karbala's martyr's and Hura. It would jeopardise their intentions and so therefore, they had to do something to prevent people from pilgrimaging the dead, keeping their crimes un-seen.
Sh: That was an interesting possibility.
Dr: Let's discuss now what to say when pilgrimaging. In the Baqi graveyard there is a sign saying that we are only allowed to say the following:
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ﻻﺣﻘﻮﻥ ﺑﻜﻢ ﺍﻧﺸﺎءﷲ ﻧﺤﻦ ﻭ ﻋﻠﻴﻜﻢ ﺍﻟﺴﻼﻡ
Sh: That is true although it is different in various countries and religions.
Dr: That is correct. I have read some of the pilgrimage books of Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia. It is very detailed. However, in Saudi Arabia and amongst Wahabis the above verse is the only thing that is said and publicized in Baqi.
Sh: We don't have any more than these sayings.
Dr: Yes you do. You have in Mu'jam al-Tabarani, volume 4, page 58. Wahb Zydbn says: When Ali would return from Siffin he would pilgrimage the graves and say:
ﺗﺠﺎﻭﺯ ﻭ ﻟﻬﻢ ﻭ ﺍﻏﻔﺮﻟﻨﺎ ﺍﻟﻠﻬﻢ ﻻﺣﻖ. ﻗﻠﻴﻞ ﻋﻤﺎ ﺗﺒﻊ ﻟﻜﻢ ﻧﺤﻦ ﻭ ﻓﺎﺭﻁ ﺳﻠﻒ ﻟﻨﺎ ﺍﻧﺘﻢ ﺍﻟﻤﺆﻣﻨﻴﻦ ﻣﻦ ﺍﻟﺪﻳﺎﺭ ﺍﻫﻞ ﻳﺎ ﻋﻠﻴﻜﻢ ﺍﻟﺴﻼﻡ ﺍﷲ ﻋﻦ ﺭﺿﻲ ﻭ ﺑﺎﻟﻜﻔﺎﻑ ﻗﻨﻊ ﻭ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﺎﺏ ﻋﻤﻞ ﻭ ﺍﻟﻤﻌﺎﺩ ﺫﻛﺮ ﻟﻤﻦ ﻃﻮﺑﻲ ﻋﻨﻬﻢ. ﻭ ﻋﻨﺎ ﺑﻌﻔﻮﻙ
"Salam Alaikum (Hello) to you O' from the land of the believers. You are before the time of us and we will join you soon. O' God forgive and pardon us and them. I envy the person that reflects on his actions on judgment day and acts accordingly and is content with sufficient and is fulfilled with God."
Sh: I have not seen it but it is possible.
Dr: Here you go. Have a look at my mobile.
Sh: Yes, but I said that the supplications for pilgrimaging the graveyards are not the only ones that are written in Baqi.
Dr: And I brought up an example of one. For instance please have a look at this sample too:
Sh: Which sample?
Pilgrimaging and Its Ritual's Based on Alazhar
Dr: In Fatwa Alazhar, Chapter Hajj, Volume 1, page 198, supplication of Medina:
"If this Haji was not able to initial a travel to pilgrimage the Prophet (peace be upon him)
then it would be tradition for him to pilgrimage the Prophet after he is done with Hajj.
This is because it is one the biggest sectors and highest approached. There are many Hadith regarding the advantages of undertaking this. You have to instead, pray in the shrine of the Prophet in order to obtain reward. In the Hadith of Sharif, from the Prophet (peace be upon him): "Praying in my shrine is 1000 times more rewarding other than Masjid Al Haram" Ahmad says in his Musnad from Abdullah that: The pilgrim should conduct ablution and wear his best clothes and smell well. If he was not able to conduct
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ablution he can Wudu. Then head towards the Shrine of the Prophet with humility and humbleness. Once he enters the shrine head towards the Rawda Sharif (Prophet's shrine, garden of heaven) that is between the honourable grave and the Prophet's tribune and read two sermon prayers named Tahiyat in the Mosque and call God and pray to him because he is in the presence of one of the gardens of the heavenly gardens. He is in the place where mercy is given and prayers are answered to. Once the pilgrim is done with salution of the Mosque he then turns towards the grave of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and stands by the side of the Prophet's blessed head and salutes the Prophet (peace be upon him) with a lowered voice and send his regards from himself and the people that have asked him to salute on their behalf."
Sh: This is just like how you pilgrimage.
Dr: This is Fatwa from Alazhar. Although this exact saying is also mentioned in the collected Fatwa's of Egypt.
Sh: You are right. This is exactly believed in Egypt.
Dr: Then you just wished for me to explain it all.
Sh: I have seen these in Egypt but the truth is that I have not even had the chance to read these chains of transmissions. And it is very interesting to me that you have sat down and have done it.
Sh: You initially mentioned in our discussion that regarding Pilgrimaging, there have been many sayings.
Dr: Yes, that is because normally the Imams of Shia and the children of the Ahl al Bayt are under scrutiny and accusations from the Umayyad and Abbasid's. To prevent the accusations from becoming belief and to also continue their direction towards protesting through their believers they include their important sayings via these supplications. That is why the contents of these supplications are very beautiful.
Sh: Yes, I saw this in some of the supplications such as the supplication of Ashura however I was not able to dismantle the educational concepts.
Dr: Supplications normally start with a salute. It is normally a remembrance of the beginning, meaning the start of Adam, until it reaches the Imam in question. This is because it wants to show that we have one righteous path and that the path only starts from Adam and finishes with the Prophet Muhammad and that you are on that same path.
Sh: It is a delicate point.
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Dr: The second point is martyrdom in Islam and believing in the actions that they do especially this one:
ﺍﻟﻤﻨﻜﺮ... ﻋﻦ ﻧَﻬَﻴّﺖَ ﻭ ﺑﺎﻟﻤﻌﺮﻭﻑ ﺍﻣﺮﺕ ﻭ ﺍﻟﺰﻛﻮﻩًْ ﺍﺗﻴﺖ ﻭ ًْﺍﺷﻬﺪﺍﻧﻚ ﺍﻟﺼﻠﻮﻩ ﺍﻗﻤﺖ
This part is only there because the Umayyad and Abbasid's would accuse the Imams of rebelling against religion.
Sh: Yes, you are right but all of them accept Ali.
Dr: Muawiyah has insisted on cursing Ali and most of the people of Shaam abided by it.
Sh: That was done for a short period of time and it was then obviated.
Dr: When Ali was killed and it was announced that he was killed in the Mosque, the people from Shaam asked: How could Ali be killed in a Mosque when he wouldn't pray?
Sh: Yes, these were only happening in Muawiyah's time.
Dr: Didn't these actions continue until Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz's time?
Sh: Yes, it did continue until then.
Dr: Didn't Yazid say that Hussain Ibn Ali had revolted against Islam and the people of Koofeh have to kill him and to hold his family captive? Did Yazid not accuse them of being outcasts?
Sh: Yes, that is correct.
Dr: Things were no better within Abbasi's either. Even though, they do not kill the Imams in broad daylight. That is why we have kept these martyrdoms for the history of martyrdoms.
Sh: Martyrdom is not appointed to die at all.
Dr: Of course it isn't. We only appoint them to Imams and their children. We read the verses of the Quran and Surat Al Fatihah for the people who are common and have passed away.
Sh: But these supplications are longer than these discussions.
Dr: Yes, in some of these supplications it has been mentioned how they tortured the Ahl al Bayt and even in some of them how they were martyred. For instance in the supplication of Ashura many of the comments are mentioned.
Sh: There are also many curses.
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Dr: Yes, I did explain those. That is because the curses itself teach you something. It teaches you not to go killing the Prophet's children.
Sh: Your analysis is correct.
When the discussion got to this point Mr Karbalayi came over with some tea and Persian sweets and snacks. As usual my friends were quiet the whole duration for the discussion and were listening. The ones that were unable to speak Arabic would quietly leave the room.
At this moment the Spiritual guide of the trip whom was familiar with Arabic entered the room.
Due to his young age and in experience I was scared that he would say something to offend the Sheikh but thankfully, after I introduced the Sheikh and said that he was one of the scholars from Alazhar, he only asked some minor questions and I translated some of it. He said: Why is Shi'asm not taught in Alazhar? Among other questions that were a representative of his lack of experience in publications and external relations. Shia'sm does get taught in Alazhar.
The Confessions of Mohammad Ibn Abudl Wahab
Dr: By the way dear Sheikh, have you seen the book called "ﻣﻔﺎﻫﻴﻢ ﺗﺼﺤﺢ ﺍَﻥ ﻳﺠﺐ "Concepts " that are in need of correction"?
Sh: I have heard about it but not read it.
Dr: That book is written by Seyed Mohammad Alavi al-Maliki al-Hassani from Mecca.
Sh: Yes, I have heard about it, its content must be interesting. The concepts that need correction are intriguing to know.
Dr: I have it. Please have a look at it. It rejects most of the Sunni beliefs and it says that it needs correcting. It quotes from Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab and that the Wahabis on watch for Baqi are acting against what it is supposed to be.
Sh: Which Fatwa?
Dr: On page 310, in this book mentions the Al Dor Al Sonniya book, volume 1, page 52.
Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab has declared 12 things to be false and an accusation. They are as followed:
1- I voided the books of Mazaheb.
2- People had nothing since 600 years ago.
3- I claimed my own Ijtihad.
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4- I am against imitating.
5- It is a catastrophe to socialize with scholars.
6- I class anyone that invokes towards the righteous, to be infidels.
7- If I had the power to demolish the Prophet's shrine then I would do so.
8- I deny supplicating the Prophet's grave.
9- I deny supplicating the parent's grave.
10- I class anyone that bows to anyone but God to be an infidel.
And...
Dr: On my programme via my mobile I have the book of Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab, volume 1, page 15 saying:
Sheikh Muhammad forbids imitating for the people that have the ability to identify guidance and evidence. People that do not have the aptitude of identifying all cases then are allowed and in need of imitating. Therefore, Sheikh Muhammad Batlaan has formally denies imitating when people that are present in Baqi talk as if Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab has forbidden it.
The Dynamics of Authority and Imitating in Shia'sm
Sh: You are right. This is because this subject has been discussed in some of the books but no one has in particular has actually pointed it out to be against imitating.
Dr: Then how come when it comes to discussing Shia'sm they question why we imitate? Are we not to imitate at all?
Sh: Yes, some common people say this but our scholars spend less time regarding it.
Dr: Actually I believe that the scholars influence the mind of the common people in a bad way even though they themselves believe in imitating.
Sh: It appears to me that you only follow the ordinances from people that are alive. While we act on the ordinances that the four scholars have appointed out and have no Fatwa for them unless of course something serious happens.
Dr: In fact imitating in Shia'sm is not for the principles of Din (religion) but it is for the branches of Din. What I mean is that no one can rely its recognition and belief on God, its Prophet, Quran and resurrection by relying on imitating. That would be completely reprobated. Imitating should only be on the branches of Din.
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Sh: You mean Salat (praying), fasting, and...
Dr: Yes, however, this kind of imitating has two conditions. Firstly, the person should not be a researcher in religion and or be religious Jurist in any shape or form, which would be prohibited.
Secondly, the person can only imitate someone that has is well aware of the science of Din and has special circumstances.
Sh: We have the first condition that you mentioned as well. We do not have the second one condition though. What I mean is that typically the Scholars that are being imitated are the scholars running the government.
Dr: You are right, in your school if the person is a scholar or researcher then he does not imitate someone else. There is one difference though and that is, some of the sayings of your four Imams are required to be complied with and it cannot be altered. However, in Shia'sm the scholar that is being imitated on can research on his own accord regarding all subjects and can claim Ijtihad and innovate a new idea.
Sh: Do you mean to say that he would say something over Imam Jafar?
Dr: If there is certainty that what he is about to say is not going against what they have said then yes. But there is no restriction for them to claim Ijtihad and to interpreted on what the imams have said.
Sh: What do you mean? This is a little complicated for me now.
Dr: It isn't complicated. A researcher of religion that is familiar with the required various sciences of Din can easily, by using the verses of the Quran, authentic Hadith and his own logic, appoint necessary ordinances for the secondary principles of the Din that is needed.
Sh: This would provide too may alterations to the matters that are considered to be branches of religion. People could possibly pray in different styles.
Dr: That is not the case because 99% of the structures of the branches are uniform and steady. In fact, they do not have many differences either. There are however difference in matters of Ijtihad and in some very fine subjects.
Sh: Regarding Salat (Pray), Fasting, Hajj and Zakat (Alms), there are no differences between our schools.
Dr: You do have differences but they are minor. For instance, some read the initial part of the verses where it says: " ﺍﻟﺮﺣﻴﻢloudly, ﺍﻟﺮﺣﻤﻦ ﺍﷲ "ﺑﺴﻢ some read it with a whisper. Some keep their arms open whilst praying and some close them.
Sh: Yes, these cases are not that important.