THE DOCTOR AND THE SHEIKHS' DEBATE
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Day Fifteenth of Zihajjah
I had a meeting scheduled at Masjid Al Haram after the Zuhr prayer with the Sheikh. The Sheikh had come with one of his friends (Dr Zohair). We started to walk together. Even though we had agreed to go to my hotel after the provisions of Mena the Sheikh said that Sheikh Usman and Abubakr had insisted to be present for the continuation of the debate and therefore we headed towards the Sheikh's hotel. On the way to their hotel we had a conversation.
Dr: Did you do the provisions after the Mena?
Sh: Yes, Thank the Lord I did all of the provisions.
Dr Zohair: Sheikh did the Nisa Tawaf instead of the Veda Tawaf (Farewall Circumbulation).
Sheikh was saying that the Doctor said the Nisa Tawaf is the correct one to read and not the Veda Tawaf. It appears that Sheikh has accepted what the Doctor has been saying.
Sh: What is the difference? Tawaf is Tawaf. It can be named Nisa or Veda.
Dr Zohair: There is one difference. The Nisa is as the Doctor is saying, from the Ahl al Bayt.
Veda is said to be from us, the Caliphas.
Sh: I thought to myself it would be better as I would be listening to what the Ahl al Bayt has said. Also, I have been listening to the actual Tawaf which is the duty of every Muslim.
Dr: Sheikh is a researcher. He wouldn't act on anything especially regarding prayer until it lands right in the depth of his heart.
Dr Zohair: Doctor when you are not around Sheikh is always talking about you. He says that we do not have a strong come back in return of what the Doctor tells us. We have not read our own books very well or else we would have realised that many of the ways we pray and the religious provisions we act upon are not actually from us. I also am saying that we should go and read it.
Sh: We are short on many things. There wouldn't be a problem for us to go read all of these books and review them.
Dr Zohair: Why have you not read them before?
Sh: I had read about the books but they were extractions of Hadith's taken from the source. For example regarding Salat I would read books that were written about the Prophet praying and it would cite Hadith's from the source but we never went back to read the topic from its source.
Dr Zohair: Well the Doctor lessened your trouble. He has got them all ready for you and presented them.
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Sh: Yes, Doctor has troubled himself but it is embarrassing that an engineer has gone and done the research about this and I or people like me just have to refer to our own books, only to see that we for instance have a problem in a section of our own prayer.
Dr: Dear Sheikh you are being modest. You must have seen these cases but because you have been focused on the things that are generally common in society, you haven't noticed them.
Sh: Please don't find excuses for me. I should have paid more attention.
Dr Zohair: You have pointed out our lack of attention to detail and now Sheikh is constantly complaining about the situation with the circle for religious studies and the Sunni Universities after meeting with you.
Sh: Never mind, we are at the hotel now. Let's have lunch and then continue our debate concerning the Caliphas.
Now I was the known face at the Sheikh's hotel. The Sheikh's friends surrounded me and started having many laughs and talks as we had an Arabian lunch and then we headed towards Sheikh's room. Due to not seeing Sheikh Usman and the rest of the group for a while, the majority of the discussion concerned the provisions of Hajj and I was almost thinking that we would not get to talk about our debate until Sheikh insisted that we should do so.
6- Consequences over Eliminating Ali from Being Chosen as Calipha after the Prophet
Dr: Now let's have a look at what have been consequences over eliminating Ali from being chosen.
Sh: What consequences? Thanks to the Lord, Islam has many followers in this world. What was wrong with what happened?
Dr: Maybe if Ali was chosen the whole world would have been Muslim.
Sh: But Ali did become Calipha and if he was to do anything he could have then.
Dr: Ali became Calipha after twenty five years of deflection. He had to build a house on foundations were already destroyed.
Sh: He could have started a new one.
Dr: They didn't let him.
Sh: How did they not let him?
Dr: When he wanted to start ruling he made a speech that has been mentioned in Sharh Nahj ul- Balagha written by Muhammad Abduh, professor of Alazhar saying:
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ﺍﺳﻔﻠﻜﻢ ﻛﻢ ﺍﻋﻼ ﻭ ﺍﻋﻼﻛﻢ ﺍﺳﻔﻠﻜﻢ ﻳﻌﻮﺩ ﺣﺘﻲ ﻏﺮﺑﻠﻪ ﺑﻠﻦ ﻟﺘﻐﺮ ﻭ ﺑﻜﺒﻠﻪ ﻟﺘﺒﻠﺒﻠﻦ
"I will turn you inside out and I will turn you over! In such a way that the people above you would come down and the people below you will come up (I will create order)."
Sh: I had not seen this before.
Dr: Yes, it is in the books especially in Nahj ul-Balagha.
Sh: It is a beautiful sentence.
Dr: We agreed that I do not refer to any of the chain of transmissions from the Ahl al Bayt or else at least I could have shown you cases from Nahj ul-Balagha that would have represented an ocean of science and information to you.
Sh: But Nahj ul-Balagha is correct. The Shias have collected them and I have referred to it in Alazhar. We call it the two great sects of Islam, as Sheikh Muhammad Abduh has interpreted it.
Dr: Well, all in all, I mentioned this once case just so you could see why Ali could not save all of the foundations of Islam from their destruction.
Sh: But the result wasn't all bad.
Dr: There were three wars forced upon Ali. All of them were due to the companions.
Sh: We discussed the differences of the companions.
Dr: I consider them reasons for Ali not being successful in trying to correct the system.
Sh: Ali defeated all of them even the Nahravans.
Dr: But the results of them are the deflections that you see now.
Sh: Which cases?
Dr: The ruling of Muawiyah, Yazid, Marwan, all in all, the Amavis and then the Abbasis and then the demolishing of the Islamic system in the world.
Sh: Do you mean to say that if Ali had been chosen from the beginning none of this would have happened?
Dr: If they had listened to the Prophet and had chosen Ali as Calipha after the Prophet none of this would have happened for certain. The twelve Caliphas that the prophet had chosen would have ruled and the world would be in Islam's hands.
Sh: Thank the Lord there are many Muslims now too.
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Dr: But we have two Islam’s right now.
Sh: How come do we have two Islams?
Dr: One Islam started with the Rashedin becoming Calipha and it got to Muawiyah and Yazid and now in today’s age the Arabian countries, all of the kings and Sultans, and presidents are following the same line and the other Islam that started with Ali and got to Hasan and Hussein and now it has gotten to Imam Khumeini and Hasan Nasrulah in Lebanon.
Sh: Do you mean to say that it got divided?
Dr: Yes, the School of Ahl al Bayt and the School of Caliphas. Am I right or not? Do we not have two schools right now?
Sh: With this explanation. Yes.
Dr: Dear Sheikh, we cannot have two righteous paths, can we?
Sh: Yes, we cannot have two righteous paths.
Dr: Now be fair and tell me which path and school is closer to the righteous path.
Sh: With this reasoning, the path and School of Ahl al Bayt. The Iranian Islam and Seyed Hasan Nasrulah are not comparable to any Arabian king or President of the Islamic countries.
Dr: Thank you, therefore, if Ali had been Calipha from the start all of the countries would have been Islamic like Iran and the people would have had Muslims just like the people of Iran and Lebanon.
Dr Zohair: Then Sheikh would have been like Khomeini and we would have been like the Doctor.
Sh: Well maybe God would help me and now that I didn't become like Khomeini at least I could be his follower like Hasan Nasrulah in Lebanon.
Dr: I think that is enough for today. I will have to go to the hotel and rest until the Maghrib prayer.
Sh: Very well. We can continue the debate tomorrow.
Dr: We will have the debate in my hotel with Sheikh Usman and your friends who are more than welcome.
Sh Usman: I will be there.
Dr: And that will make me happy. Farewell then until tomorrow after the Zuhr prayer.
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Sh: Farewell.
I went back to my hotel. Some of my friends had come from Masjid an Nabawi in Tehran (our local mosque) to my hotel and my other friends were busy hosting them. Many different debates were being discussed. They had questions concerning provisions as well for instance a certain thing had happened while they were doing Tawaf and what was to be done or not and whether had it ruined all of his provisions or not. Just like the cases I had mentioned before. They have created so many obsessions over everything that people start having doubts even if they decided to drink water on the way to Sa'ay (running ritual of the pilgrimage). My friends left eventually and I went off to run my errands.
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Day Sixteenth of Zihajjah
As usual I had an arrangement made to meet the Sheikh but this time it was in front of the door of Ijyad. We had agreed to go to my hotel. The two Sheikhs appeared with Dr Zohair and we called a cab so we could head towards my hotel for lunch and then to go to my room. As soon as my friends saw the Sheikh they became very happy. They also greeted Dr Zohair and Sheikh Usman. Just like the first day the Sheikh had come over to my hotel. He was served food and everything else. This Iranian tradition truly has its own rewards.
Sh Usman: Sheikh Ibrahim why didn't you allow us to come over here from the start? They have excellent service here. Our hotel cannot compare to this.
Sh: I asked the Doctor to come to our hotel so you guys would be able to get involved in our debates. I knew that from the love you have in research and debates you would be happy to meet with the Doctor or else I already knew that the service at his hotel was much better.
Dr: Please do not flatter us as much as you have. We do not have anything more than what you have in your hotels.
Sh: Let us not waste time as we have to return soon. Please allow us to continue our debate.
Ghargham: But this is not fair as you guys speak in Arabic and we do not know the language.
Karbalayi: What they wish to debate about is none of our business. It is most likely regarding religion. Let us go to the shrine and conduct some non compulsory Tawafs while the shrine is not crowded.
Dr Ahmadi: He is right. You better go to the shrine so I can have a good sleep without your snoring.
Karbalayi: How come you can sleep while Doctor is debating but you cannot fall asleep with me snoring?
Dr Ahmadi: Because you're snoring is as loud as a tractor passing by. Their noise debating in the corner of the room is no comparison to yours.
Haj Abbas: Whoever wants to do whatever please get on with it. I know a little Arabic and wish to listen to this debate.
Sh: What are they talking about?
Dr: It is a discussion about snoring and the noise comparison to us debating and some of our friends heading to Masjid Al Haram and conducting Tawaf.
Sh: Please tell your friends that if they know any Arabic they must stay and listen to our debate.
Listening to us would be much more rewarding.
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7- The Prophet's Testimonial over Ali Being Calipha after Him
Dr: Alright then. Let us go to the next section of our discussion regarding the Caliphas. What I mean is the Prophet’s testimonial and Ali being Calipha.
Sh: This section is not accepted by many people. They are the same people that also do not accept what happened in Ghadir.
Dr: No, Ghadir is not in this section. Ghadir is separate from this and will be mentioned at the end of our debate.
Sh: Please go ahead then.
Dr: The cases that are mentioned in your own books and are indications that the Prophet recommended Ali for Calipha are as follows.
Sh: Please mention the cases that are genuine and precise.
Dr: As you wish. Let us have a look at your own book of Khasais Nesaei.
The Prophets own saying: "Ali is of me and I am of Ali".
ﻋﻠﻴﻪ ﺍﷲ ﺻﻠﻲ ﺍﷲ ﺭﺳﻮﻝ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻗﺎﻝ: ﺣﺼﻴﻦ، ﺑﻦ ﻋﻤﺮﺍﻥ ﻋﻦ ﻋﺒﺪﺍﷲ، ﺑﻦ ﻣﻄﺮﻑ ﻋﻦ ﺍﻟﺮﺷﻚ، ﻳﺰﻳﺪ ﻋﻦ ﺳﻠﻴﻤﺎﻥ، ﺑﻦ ﺟﻌﻔﺮ ﺑﻌﺪﻱ ﻦ ﻣﺆﻣ ﻛﻞ ﻭﻭﻟﻲ ﻣﻨﻪ ﻭﺃﻧﺎ ﻣﻨﻲ ﻋﻠﻴﺎ ﺍﻥ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ:
"Umran Ibn Haseen said: The messenger of God said: Ali is of me and I am of Ali and he is Master of all the faithful."
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Dr: Very well, do you not think that with this straight forwardness, sentences such as "Master of all believers after me"; "Master for all believers after me is Ali", are not an indication for choosing a successor?
Sh Usman: These last words have ruined everything for us. If it did not say "after me" then we could have just said what we would always say about our Shia brothers. We would say that it meant friends. Now we cannot say that it means "After me Ali is your friend". It just wouldn't make sense.
Sh: Are you saying that you accept the Prophet choosing Ali as his successor?
Sh Usman: If you don't accept this sentence then can you please translate this "ﻭﻟﻲ ﺑﻌﺪﻱ ﻣﺆﻣﻦ ﻛﻞ "what does it means?
Dr: Accept that the Prophet did choose a Calipha then I will talk about Ghadir to complete this section.
Sh Usman: If there any objections please say something now.
Sh: I have to add that accepting this does not disqualify the other Caliphas.
Dr: Please allow me to explain this further in our Ghadir Khumm discussion.
Sh: Very well.
Dr: Now let's just focus on a collection of Hadith's that have been accumulated by Kanzal Amaal which is one of your famous books and is being used as a credible source. We can see that in his book the assets and virtues of some of the companions have been mentioned. There are cases regarding the qualities of Ali Ibn Abitaleb mentioned in this book that it would cause any fair Muslim to contemplate. It would make one think if Ali was even comparable or if he was completely exceptional so that the Prophet chose him for his continuation of line as a successor and Caliphate. I have translated these virtues of Ali from this book and would like to present you with it. (Refer to Appendix 2).
The writer of the book has mentioned at the beginning that: "For this book I have gathered all of the Hadith's by ignoring the surfaces and I have concentrated on the source". What I mean to say is that I have ignored the first chain of transmissions and have only focused on citing the origin of the Hadith's. Even better than that, I have ignored the parts of the Hadith's that explain the initial part of the story and have only mentioned the parts where it was related and mentions the root of the issue such as the virtues of Ali. The writer has prevented even mentioning the sources of his chain of transmissions and has only pointed out one source by using abbreviations. The intent for this conduct is to simplify the use of the book for the religious clerks and readers.
The writer of the book of Kanzal Amaal Fi Seni Nel Aqval Val Afaal, Alaedin al Motaqi Ibn Hesam Al Din Hendi (Passed away in 1616 A.D), has mentioned 46000 Hadith's (with
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repetition) regarding this. Some parts of the book are regarding the virtues of the four Caliphas that we don’t need to discuss. But please pay attention to the fact that Abubakr has 42 Hadith, Umar has 87 and Usman has 85 Hadith. Ali has 197 Hadith all narrated from the Prophet and they all have different contents compared to the other three Caliphas which you can see for yourself.
The interesting facts about these Hadith's are that most of the ones regarding Abubakr and Umar are the same. For instance, where it says: Abubakr and Umar in my perspective are like Haroon was for Moses. Now please be the judge, how it is possible for two people to be like one person?
In fact I can prove with several chains of transmissions and unified credible sources that this Hadith was said for one person and that was for Ali. The Hadith goes by like this: One specific person is as equal to the Prophet as Haroon was for Moses. Not two people, which shows that at the time of faking the Hadith there was not much attention paid to it. Of course this isn't to say that the Caliphas were happy about faking Hadith's as these Hadith's were faked and written after them.
Sh: There are several Hadith's in Kanzal Amaal which ones would you recommend?
matters concerning the Prophet choosing a successor and the Caliphates.
Sh: With what patience did you gather all this?
Dr: You don't need to have patience. You need to have love. I have found these Hadith's one by one from between your books so that if a person like Sheikh Ibrahim or Sheikh Usman or Dr Zohair came along and asked me why do you believe in Ali being the first Calipha? I would then be able to say that I was able to come to such a realization from reading your own books. I said the same thing to Sheikh Hamdaan Al Qamedi, a professor at the Umm al-Qura University.
Sh Usman: Sheikh Ibrahim, with all the explanations that the Doctor has given us I believe that we look at religious issues like a job therefore we have never had love to inspire us in looking for these detailed information and to extract such Hadith's.
Dr Zohair: If what I am about to say would not offend you I would like to say something. Your job just like me being a Medical Doctor, is teaching religious studies. If the information that people seek are sufficient then you would not have the need to go look for more answers. You would not go and research. It has been a long time since I read a Medical book. But the Doctor’s job is not related to religion. He is a professor at the University. He does not get paid from doing anything religious but he spends time and money seeking it. This kind of work definitely requires love.
Dr: Let us pray so that God gives us the trouble of searching for information about our religion.
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Dr Zohair: Do you mean to say seeking religion is troublesome?
Dr: No, but the real Islam has no problems. The issue arises when after 1400 years so many alterations have been done to religion that the real Islam is no longer visible. So many branches and leaves have been surrounded by it that it is even harder to see what the real Islam is. This, you see, especially in Arabian countries. Religion is viewed as several provisions that need undertaking without any connection to the soul.
Sh Usman: I pray for God to innovate love in our religion and for us to pay attention to it as much as we do to our jobs.
Dr: God Willing. Shall I continue or shall we leave the rest for later?
Sh: I think it is enough for the day. By seeing such Hadith's one gets embarrassed and accepting the mistake becomes troublesome enough. Please allow us to talk to your friends a little. They must be bored by now.
Haj Abbas: I am not tired at all.
Sh: I was being humorous.
Dr: Very well. Please tell me what you wish to say and I will translate for my friends.
It took an hour of pleasant social talking then afterwards:
Sh: I have something planned for tomorrow evening would it be okay if we saw each other after Maghrib.
Dr: It wouldn't be bad. That would be very well planned.
Sh: How come?
Dr: Because I will be going to Iran in three days and tomorrow would possibly be the last time we are able to talk.
Sh: Then please let's finish our discussion regarding Ghadir Khumm.
Dr: In fact tomorrow night is the 18th of Zihajjah and it is the same night that Ghadir Khumm happened.
Sh: Very well then, the discussion of Ghadir Khumm on the night of Ghadir Khumm is very good. It has its own rewards.
Dr: God Willing, but I have a request to ask from you.
Sh: Please ask away.