THE DOCTOR AND THE SHEIKHS' DEBATE
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Sh Hamid: Of course there are much less corruption around the honorable Shrines in Mecca and Medina but in other cities there might be a bit more as there are possibilities that non- Muslims live there.
Dr: From what I have heard there is very much corruption in between families. For instance in of the European toll results, statistically the Saudi woman are the most users exploited of websites that are morally corrupted in the world.
Sh Hamid: Do Saudi woman use the internet that much?
Dr: Yes, In fact they have first place in the world.
Sh Hamid: First place in using the internet?
Dr: In Europe and industrial countries women and men work therefore have less time to go on the internet. In African counties and most Asian countries there is less opportunity of using the internet due to financial reasons. in Saudi Arabia there is money, mobile (computers) and unemployment creating many opportunities for women that are unemployed and has no hobbies.
Therefore, they use the computers to access the net.
Sh Hamid: Seeking refuge in God, can you see how the westerners are bringing corruption into our homes.
Dr: One of the most important institutions in the west and in the Islamic countries has always been family. The imperialists and communists hand in hand succeeded to corrupt the families in Europe and industrial countries. Because when people do not have a grounding institution such as good family they can easily be used and can be easily brainwashed culturally.
Sh Hamid: How can you say that the imperialists and the communists, hand in hand did this when they were against each other and were always at cold war with each other.
Dr: I believe that they had one thing in common and that was to destroy the grounds of families.
The communists insisted on getting the people to become non believers of God so they could destroy the spiritual values of family. The imperialism disseminated corruption and chaos in families to obliterate them.
Sh Hamid: You studied in Europe. How did you see it there?
Dr: Europeans appeared to be lonely people. They seemed to just focus on how to manage their own lives and the tourbillion around them.
Sh Hamid: How did you see the family structures?
Dr: There are a low percentage of people committed to their family and very few whom actually do have a family.
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Sh Hamid: They talk about how Jesus has given them happiness then how come there is no happiness between their families?
Dr: But the people who are running the shows have also stopped talking about family and love.
Today in Europe the women and their husbands that are from one family live apart. I mean to say they have separate bank accounts and have their own income and spend on that and therefore after a while they separate as they have no dependency on each other. A European man, on top of having different girlfriends before getting married, gets to also marry three to five times. The woman on top of their several boyfriends gets married five to eight times. Dose a woman whom gets married eight times have any emotion left?
Sh Hamid: So they also have several marriages with a difference that it is not all in one time.
Dr: In fact they do mostly all of the things that they despise of us Muslims.
Sh Hamid: I hope to God that these problems do not get to Islamic countries.
Dr: If we are not careful it will even now, some Islamic countries have already begun to start having the same problems.
Sh Hamid: Where for instance?
Dr: Towards the west, Al Jazeera and the Islamic countries in the central Asia.
Sh Hamid: It is not as bad in Saudi Arabia. Families are still structured.
Dr: But it appears to me that these families in specifically the ones outside of Mecca and Medina are like bricks with no mortar built on top of each other and can be destroyed with just the smallest touch.
Sh Hamid: The government has started to concentrate on families and most of the religious speeches and sermon prayers on the Friday pray are regarding family.
Dr: The problem is more than what you think though. Unfortunately, the faith of woman in Islam has deteriorated in most of the Islamic countries, due to more restrictions, especially in Saudi Arabia; and therefore they start creating questions for women and then they destruct the grounds of the family. You have seen the western movies made and shown in cinema and television.
Most of them come from families that have been destructed. They say that a woman does not have to just have sexual relationship with a man and they advertise it in their films. They advertise sexual relationship between families and therefore, all of the scientists around the Islamic world have to put hand in hand to confront this western souvenir that is consuming the Islamic countries and the third world.
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Ablution in Islam
Sh Hamid: Let's go back to the questions.
Dr: Yes, I firstly wish to ask regarding ablution.
Sh: What is your question? Please ask.
Dr: The question I have regarding ablution is this: Regarding anointing, why do you wash your feet instead of just stroking it with water?
Sh Hamid: The answer to this question is very clear and easy. Regarding washing our heads or feet we refer back to the verse in Quran.
Dr: But apparently the verse regarding ablution says nothing about that. The verse in Surat Al- Maidah says:
"O you who have believed, when you rise to [perform] prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful."
Sh Hamid: This discussion has been mentioned in Quran and also the Sunnat (tradition)
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Dr: How can you translate such a clear verse of Quran this way wrongly? The Sunnat says otherwise too.
Sh Hamid: How can Quran be translated wrongly?
Dr: It is very clear. It firstly says face and hands and then it says to anoint your heads and feet.
Sh: The way you read it changes its meaning.
Dr: Allow me to continue this debate using your own books.
Sh Hamid: Please go ahead.
Dr: In your own books it explains the reason as to why you wash your feet this way: In the above verse the word "
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Sh Hamid: Yes, that is correct.
Dr: Well, the source of the debate due to the verbs being close to each other is not the point because the first verb and the second have complete independencies. The part where it says anointing the feet is after when it says anointing the head. What does that have to do with the verbs being close to each other?
Sh Hamid: But everyone has accepted this.
Dr: Who do you mean by everyone?
Sh Hamid: All of the different religious Scholars.
Dr: Then let's see what your scholars think regarding this matter in your own books.
Sh Hamid: Please go ahead.
Dr: In Tafsir Ghorbati and also in Aldoor al Mansour, chapter 6, volume 3, page 331, Ibn Abbas says:
ﺍﻟﺤﺠﺎﺝ ﻛﺬﺏ ﻭ ﺍﷲ ﺻﺪﻕ ﺍﻧﺲ: ﻭﻗﺎﻝ ﺍﺭﺟﻠﻜﻢ ﺍﻏﺴﻠﻮ ﺑﺎﻻﻫﻮﺍﺯ: ﺧﻄﺐ ﺣﺠﺎﺝ
"Hajaj was reading a sermon in Ahwaz saying that they should wash their feet for conducting ablution. They told Anas. Anas said that God is truthful (saying that we should be anointing our feet) and Hajaj is a liar."
Sh Hamid: This is one case.
Dr: Here you go. In Al Tahrir and Al Tanvir chapter Surat Al- Maidah, volume 5, page 52 it cites the same Malik story and then says:
ﺑﺎﻟﻐﺴﻞ ﺍﻟﺴﻨﻪ ﻭ ﺎﻟﻤﺴﺢ ﺑ ﺍﻟﻘﺮﺍﻥ ﻧﺰﻝ
"What is sent down by Quran is anointing the feet but Sunnat tells us to wash our feet.
Then it says that after the era the followers of Jurists concurred to absolute the feet, meaning until then washing the feet was not the only way people would anointing the feet as well was washing the feet."
Sh Hamid: Very well, we accept that you can wash or anointing the feet even though anointing has a Quranic Base. These are the only cases available.
Dr: No, that is not the case. In Jame Al Bayan Tabari, Volume 10, page 58 and 59; and Tafsir Ibn Kasir, volume 3, page 52:
Hadith number 11476 " ﺍﻟﻐﺴﻞ ﻭﺍﻟﺴﻨﻪ ﺑﺎﻟﻤﺴﺢ ﺁﻥ ﺍﻟﻘﺮ ﻧﺰﻝ "
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"Anointing originates from the Quran but Sunat says to wash"
Hadith number 1147, "ﺻﺪﻕ ﺍﻟﺤﺠﺎﺝ ﻛﺬﺏ ﻭ ﺍﷲ "
"God is truthful and Hajaj is a liar"
Hadith number 11478, " ﺍﻟﻤﺴﺢ ﻓﻴﻬﺎ ﻧﺰﻝ ﺍﻧﻤﺎ ﻏﺴﻞ، ﺍﻟﺮﺟﻠﻴﻦ ﻋﻠﻲ ﻟﻴﺲ "
"What mentioned regarding feet is not to wash, it is to anointing"
Hadith number 11479, " ﻭﻗﺪﻣﻲ ﺭﺃﺳﻚ ﻋﻠﻲ ﺍﻣﺴﺢ » :ﺟﺎﺑﺮ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺟﻌﻔﺮ ﺍﺑﻲ ﻋﻦ "
"Anointing your head and feet"
Hadith number 11480,
" ﻣﺴﺤﺎً ﻛﺎﻥ ﻣﺎ ﻏﺴﻼًﻭﻳﻠﻘﻲ ﻛﺎﻥ ﻣﺎ ﻳﻤﺴﺢ ﺍﻥ ﺍﻟﺘﻴﻤﻢ ﺍﻥ ﺗﺮ ﺍﻟﻢ » :ﻧﺰﻝ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺛﻢ ﺑﺎﻟﻤﺴﺢ ﺟﺒﺮﺋﻴﻞ "
"Gabriel revealed anointing (for the feet ), then said: Have you not noticed that in Tayamom (dry ablution) they anointing the same places they wash (in Wudu) and the places where you have to wash (in Wudu) is let go in Tayamom."
Shukani says in Fath Al Ghadir, volume 2, page 277 says: Both cases regarding ablution and anointing is allowed.
Alusi says in Al Maani, volume 4, page 396:
"ﻓﻌﻞ ﻭﺍﻻﺳﺘﺤﺒﺎﺏ ﺍﻟﻨﺪﺏ ﻣﻦ ﺍﻛﺜﺮ ﻋﻠﻲ ﻳﺪﻝ ﻻ ﺍﻟﺨﻠﻔﺎء "
What the Caliphas did caused nothing more than to implicate things.
Tafsir Neishabouri, volume 3, page 133 says:
" ﻏﺴﻠﻬﺎ ﻭﻓﻲ ﺍﻟﺮﺟﻠﻴﻦ ﻣﺴﺢ ﻓﻲ ﺍﻟﻨﺎﺱ "ﺍﺧﺘﻼﻑ
People are having debates over whether to wash their feet's or just to anoint.
Ibn Abbas, Anas Ibn Malik, Ikrimah, Al Shaabi and Ibi Jafar Muhammad Bagher says:
"ﺍﻥّ ﺍﻟﻤﺴﺢ ﻓﻴﻬﺎ ﺟﺐ ﺍﻟﻮﺍ ,"Ibn Abbas, Anas Ibn Malik, Ikrimah, Al Shaabi and Ibi Jafar Muhammad Bagher says: "The only thing that is mandatory is to anointing the feet"
Hasan Basri and Jarir Tabari believe:
" ﻭﺍﻟﻐﺴﻞ ﺍﻟﻤﺴﺢ ﺑﻴﻦ ﻣﺨﻴﺮ "ﺍﻟﻤﻜﻠﻒ
"The person whom is obligated to pray has the freedom to anoint the feet or wash"
Sh Hamid: The amount of chain of transmissions got too much. Which one should I respond to?
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Dr: Whichever one you feel that is more important.
Sh Hamid: Regarding scholars having debates over this matter is obvious due to this many different sources.
Dr: Let's start with agreeing that at least this debate has been since the beginning of Islam.
Sh Hamid: Concerning the parts where it says that Tayamom (performing dry ablution) is equal to the places where Wudu is. If that is the case then why do we not Tayamom from our elbow to our fingers. Therefore, in my opinion we should not compare Tayamom with Wudu in this case.
Dr: To not consider Tayamom to be relevant to Wudu is strange because Tayamom is there to replace Wudu in the time of need (no water). So they are relevant and concerning not Tayamoming from elbow there are a few things I would like to say: Firstly, this case is taken from your own books. Secondly, dose the face gets fully covered when you Tamamom for the arms to do the same? Also, please pay attention to the fact that Tayamom is for the time and place where water is scarce and it is to ease up the situation one is in. It does not mean that you should do the exact you were doing once you wanted to Wudu. There are many clear Hadith's stating how Wudu was to be done and it is not necessary to explain or analyse it. The way Malik handled the pilgrims is a clear indication of that.
Sh Hamid: We are conducting Wudu the exact way the Prophet was doing.
Dr: Actually the Prophet was not conducting it that way because if it was the case there would have been no reason for all those Hadith's.
Sh Hamid: How has it been then?
Dr: The face was washed and the hands and then the head and feet were anointed.
Sh Hamid: In ablution we do have to wash the feet.
Dr: We have too many contradictions in the Hadith's that state that we should wash our feet so much so that we have no way to prove anything.
Sh Hamid: All the Muslims besides the Shias are conducting Wudu this way.
Dr: All the Muslims until the time when Usman was Califah were conducting Wudu the same way as the Shias are now, washing face and hands and anointing the feet and head.
Sh Hamid: We have several Hadith stating that the Prophet washed his feet.
Dr: Actually if you look at the all the Hadith concerning Wudu from all the followers of the Prophet's time, only two or three people have spoken about it.
Sh Hamid: No, we have plenty, everyone has spoken about it.
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Dr: Abubakr and Umar have no Hadith regarding Wudu.
Sh Hamid: Aisha and Ali have spoken about it, yes that is correct.
Dr: Actually let's have a look at what Aisha has said. In Sharh Ibn Majeh, volume 1, page 624 (Muslem and Nesaei have also stated this). Sharih Ibn Hani says: I asked Aisha about anointing in Wudu, Aisha said: Go and ask Ali he is best person to ask regarding this. Ali's opinion is obvious he says anointing the head and two feet.
Sh Hamid: Ali has a Hadith for washing feet.
Dr: Yes, if you were listening to what Aisha was saying and had followed what Ali was doing, you would have been conducting Wudu the same way the Prophet was. He has 10 Hadith's regarding anointing for the feet and one weak Hadith about washing it.
Sh Hamid: You, yourself said that based on Quran we can agree on both ways.
Dr: Let's not go back to what we have already discussed. We agreed that if the " "ﻝletter in " "ﺍﺭﺟﻠﻜﻢis accusative or was mutual then it meant to wash and if it was lowered then it meant to anoint. But just as we agreed no interpreter that has a high knowledge of understanding of Quran would mean this way, even though this book is there for the normal people to understand. Due to our perceptive we know the ordinances in Quran do not have multivalen verses because there are chances where the text of Quran clearly states that we should wash our face and arms until our elbow and to anoint our feet and head. What I mean is we could sentimentalize and then on the other hand say that it meant for us to anointing our head and wash our feet.
Sh Hamid: But all of our scholars wash their feet.
Dr: Mostly people follow the government scholars that are old and made up Hadith's and misrepresentations.
Sh Hamid: Do you mean to say that everyone is making a mistake?
Dr: Please decide that with all the facts I am giving you. Are they making a mistake? Anas Ibn Malik says that they are making a mistake. Ali is saying they are making a mistake, Shafeii says it is wrong. Ibn Abbas says, they are making a mistake. Many others say that both ways can be done.
Sh Hamid: What difference does it make any way for you to be so sensitive about it.
Dr: It makes such a big difference. I want to prove that we follow the tradition of the Prophet, meaning we are the real Sunnis and you just follow the Caliphas. In the Tafsir of Ibn Kasir chapter 6, volume 3, page 52, the stories of pilgrims and Anas have clearly stated this way. So agree that we are the real Sunnis.
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Sh Hamid: If you are Sunni then we do not have a problem with that.
Dr: Yes, we are Sunnis meaning we are the followers of the Prophet's Sunnat and you are Sunnis that follow the Caliphas Sunnat.
Sh Hamid: The Caliphas are the Prophet's Caliphas so for that reason we are also following the Sunnat of the Prophet.
Dr: I would rather not get into that specifically yet. But do you agree that anointing is correct and the verse is true?
Sh: Doctor, everytime I have come to the debate over the Caliphas you have said another time.
Would it not be good to discuss that in the presence of Sheikh Hamid? Dear Sheikh Hamid, the doctor also has opinions on the Caliphas.
Dr: But we agreed to discuss Wudu and Salat in the presence of Sheikh Hamid.
Sh Hamid: This is good. If you have any more sources concerning anointing please discuss.
Dr: Reason says that the best source is the Quran. Once the Quran says something then there should no longer be any recantation.
Sh Hamid: That is correct, people should all know that when it comes to ordinances they should just follow the Quran and refer to Sunnat for minor cases.
Dr: Actually, concerning Wudu there are many minor cases that have been mentioned. For instance there is no mention of the Sermon's of Salat or how to Sajdah, Ruku and what to say in the Quran. On the topic of fasting, there are no minor detailseven about Hajj there is nothing. But regarding Wudu we have complete details. What I mean to say is that Quran clearly says in Surat Al-Maidah to wash the face and hands and to anoint the head and feet. It is interesting that there is this much difference between something that has been clearly stated in the Quran compared to other things that have no mention at all such as fasting and Hajj and etc...In Quran, Surat Ash Shuraa verse number 10 says:
"And in anything over which you disagree - its ruling is [to be referred] to Allah. [Say], "That is Allah, my Lord; upon Him I have relied, and to Him I turn back."
Sh Hamid: We also have Sunnat regarding Wudu.
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Dr: All of the Hadith's in the end are saying to anoint but you can just rely on what other Muslims are doing. For instance in Sunan Kobra Beyhaghi, volume 1, page 44 it says:
ﻭﻳﺪﻳﻪ ﻭﺟﻬﻪ ﻳﻐﺴﻞ ﺑﻪ، ﺍﷲ ﺍﻣﺮﻩ ﺍﻟﻮﺿﻮﻛﻤﺎ ﻳﺴﺒﻊ ﺣﺘﻲ ﺍﺣﺪﻛﻢ ﺍﻟﺼﻠﻮﻩ ﺗﺘﻢ ﻻ ﻗﺎﻝ: ﺍﷲ ﺭﺳﻮﻝ ﻋﻨﺪ ﺟﺎﻟﺴﺎً ﺭﺍﻓﻊ: ﺑﻦ ًْﻋﻦ ﺭﻓﺎﻋﻪ ﺍﻟﻜﻌﺒﻴﻦ ﺍﻟﻲ ﻭﺭﺟﻠﻴﻪ ﺭﺃﺳﻪ ﻭﻳﻤﺴﺢ ﻓﻘﻴﻦ ﺍﻟﻤﺮ ﺍﻟﻲ
"We were all sitting next to the Prophet and he said not one of your prayers are accepted unless you Wudu the way God as ordered. Wash your face and your hands up to your elbows and anointing your head and feet."
Sh Hamid: Sheikh Ibrahim do you have anything to say about this? What is your opinion?
Sh: Please continue. To be honest the truth is that our sayings concerning Wudu have no solid proof.
Dr: Dear Sheikh, please have a look at this Hadith from Bukhari, Hadith 5185, volume 17, page
"Ali was in Kufeh and conducted Wudu this way. Ali read his Zuhr pray and then he addressed the needs of the people until it was time to pray the Asir prayer. He washed his face and arms and then he anointed his head and feet. Then got up and drank some water.
He stood and said: People do not like to drink water as they stand but this is how the Prophet acted (He would drink whilst standing)."
This case shows that the Hadith's that Ali said about ablution are either wrong or we have to accept them because this has been taken from the time he was Calipha.
Sh Hamid: Yes, this can be considered another case too.
Dr: Now please have a look at the Hadith below. In Kanzol Amaal, Hadith 27659 and in Mukhtareh, volume 1, page 63 it says:
Hadith number 38042:
ﺃﻻ ﻓﻘﻠﺖ ﺍﻟﺨﻔﻴﻦ ﻋﻠﻰ ﻭﻣﺴﺢ ﻳﺘﻮﺿﺄ ﺳﻌﺪ ﺑﻦ ﺳﻬﻞ ﺭﺃﻯ ﺃﻧﻪ ﺣﺎﺯﻡ: ﺃﺑﻲ ﻋﻦ ﺍﻟﺮﺣﻤﻦ ﻋﺒﺪ ﺑﻦ ﻳﻌﻘﻮﺏ ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﻣﻨﺼﻮﺭ ﺑﻦ ﺳﻌﻴﺪ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻋﻠﻴﻬﻤﺎ ﻳﻤﺴﺢ ﻭﻣﻨﻚ ﻣﻨﻰ ﺧﻴﺮﺍ ﺭﺃﻳﺖ ﻗﺪ ﻻ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺧﻔﻴﻚ ﺗﻨﺰﻉ
"They saw Sahl Ibn Saad that was conducting anointing on his feet. I asked him: did you not wash your feet? He said: No, I have seen someone that was better than me and you and he was conducting anointing on his feet."
Sh Hamid: It is interesting that the Doctor has proof from the Quran and from the Hadith's.
Dr: Then we agree that about Wudu, we have to anoint the feet. If that is the case let's move onto the rest of the Salat.